Author Topic: KT Trout guest chat!!  (Read 8655 times)

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Offline Bushpig

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KT Trout guest chat!!
« on: April 11, 2008, 03:17:13 PM »
Hi all,

I nowhave confirmation that on saturday the 3rd of May at 10-11am PST KT Trout will be speaking/answering questions in the SPF chat room.  His website is:

http://www.troutsnotes.com/

He is very knowledgable on allosrts, his most recent publications are on 'Somesimple tryptamines' and 'San pedro and other related thrichocereus'.

If you would like to speak to Trout, please send questions to myself or Kemp as we will be collecting and queueing questions ready for the event.

Boooshpig
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Bushpig »

Offline OBODAOUR

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« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2008, 09:22:17 PM »
Woot this is exciting! Looking forward to it!!! :)

Peace
ObOdAoUr
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by OBODAOUR »

Offline kemp

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« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2008, 08:29:08 AM »
Yeah!
Looking forward to this as well  :-)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by kemp »

Offline Syd

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« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2008, 02:35:08 PM »
I will do my best to be there, sounds like a good time
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Syd »

Offline kemp

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« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2008, 11:09:00 AM »
Coming up this weekend!
Saturday morning if your in the US.  

 :wink:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by kemp »

Offline Bushpig

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« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2008, 05:06:46 PM »
Be there!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Bushpig »

Offline Syd

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« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2008, 08:06:34 PM »
Quote from: "Bushpig"
Be there!
I'll try...reptile...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Syd »

Offline Bushpig

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« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2008, 12:37:39 PM »
starting in 30 mins folks!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Bushpig »

Offline Himdumb

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« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2008, 11:34:13 PM »
I missed it.  Does someone have a log they could post?

Offline boomer2

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« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2008, 01:49:40 AM »
I am so sorry that i did not see this post before.  I just received the all new color edition from Entheogen Review as a gift and was so surprised to see my photos in color in the book.

However, It was a shame that Trout was, for some reason or other, unable to get in touch with me because he missed out on a whole slew of new Psilocybe species and new papers on chemical analysis by me, Gartz, and Sihanonth from Thailand and the new in press papers on P. villarrealae and P. ovoideocystidiata, P. pegleriana and P. antioquensis, and P. laurrae to name a few.

I sure would have liked to have provided him with the new updates.

The summer issue of Entheogenic Review will have a new list of species, old ones excluded due to misleading collections of mixed species and have new species and list both those with chemical analysis with references and those which only showed bluing reactions but no chemical analysis.

If anyone is in contact with him, asked him to email me at myconaut@live.com

I have some great new cacti images that he might be interested in incase he revises the cacti book with color images.

boomer2
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by boomer2 »
God is a plant known as the Earth!

Offline Bushpig

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« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2008, 03:46:06 PM »
I'll pass that on boomer2, or you can contact him via his website.  SHould get log up here shortly, just checking hes happy to have it up here.

Booosh
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Bushpig »

Offline Bushpig

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« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2008, 04:18:45 PM »
OK folks, after a long delay (my apologies I've been silly busy) here is the log of the KT Trout chat a few weeks back.


 <@kemp> Welcome Trout!
 <trout> Hi, thanks!
 <@khronus> Hi and welcome Trout!
 <@trout> 3 websites viewers might have interest in.
 <trout> www.troutsnotes.com
<@khronus> Hello and welcome guest speaker Trout and welcome all!  Thankyou for taking the time to join us this morning Trout, it is much appreciated.  For those unaware KT Trout is the author of a number of publications, some of the most recent being 'San pedro and related trichocereus' and 'Some simple tryptamines'.  His website address is  http://www.troutsnotes.com/ .  The initial method for this session will be for anybody with questions to
 <@khronus>  PM any of the ops ( chaters at the top of the list with a green dot ) we shall then voice you and away you may ask!
 <trout> www.accurateinformationmedia.com
 <@trout> www.cactusconservation.org
 <@khronus> Trout, if I shall start this off, tell us how you got into this, what it is you are into! and what perspective you come to it from
 <@trout> I'm am information junkie. Learning is my favorite mind altering activity but I am fascinated by all types of altered states.
 <@trout> Learning is imho by far the best high
 <@trout> I probably got started spinning in circles until dizzy when a small child
 <@khronus> And would you say you approach this in a scientific sense, or is there a spiritual exploration involved  ?
 <@trout> I still do that fairly regularly.
 <@trout> Both actually. I don't see any real division.
 <@khronus> I have a few questions here to get us going, and others may come as we go, also if there is anything you'd ike to speak about yourself, please do fire away!
 <@trout> Lots of scientists hold a spiritual reality but its not discussed much in mainstream journal accounts.
 <@pkeffect> isn't that a sad truth
 <@trout> Its worse than sad as its outright discouraged
 <psych> things are starting to change, or I am wrong?!
 <@khronus> one such example could be the total scientific aversion to teleology after darwinian evolutionary theory
 <@trout> Sure, people are starting to own their own views and stand up for their beliefs. The shift is apparent but just starting.
 <@pkeffect> i was just wondering if you can elaborate on why you chose to specialize in the cacti field?
 <@trout> I don't really. The present book is on tryptamines. I love growing cacti and have been doing so for 35 years. I've written several books on the subject but its just one of many interests.
 <@trout> Besides its an area in need of a lot more information.
 <@trout> Most of what I do is in response to my perception of there being a gap in the literature.
 <@khronus> on that note, could you give us a brief overview of the issues with the trichocereus taxonomy and nomenclature  ?
 <@khronus> are they echinopsis or thrichocereus these days...much confusion abounds
 <@kemp> good question
 <@trout> Bad methodology, lack of supportive references and lack of stated reasoning for new combinations. What they get called only matters if you ae a taxonomist. If you are a grower you can call them what you want.
 <@trout> Echinopsis is the larger genus but it needs subdivisions.
 <@trout> THe present name is Echinopsis but expect to see it either split or worked up into subdivisions. THe need for this was streseed as long ago as the revision proposal in 1974.
 <@khronus> I have here some questions from people absent, if I may fire a few at you ..
 <@trout> Sure.
 <@khronus> I bought a cactus in 1995 from this oiutfit called Wild Flowers of Heaven. They called it a T peruvianus, but it looks nothing like any I have seen. It's a bit lighter green than most and has short spines close together.
 <@khronus> Have you heard of this?
 <@khronus> (no image provided i am afraid)
 <@trout> Sure, WOH bought their stock from Knize. THey ceased doing so due to receiving half a dozen distinct cacti under a single name. Its one of his KK242s of which Knize recognizes something like 9.
 <@trout> 6 of those have short spines.
 <@trout> Its something Knize collected in Peru near Matucana above 1900 feet.
 <@trout> Knize sells a lot of awesome plants but his lack of labelling and reliability has caused huge problems in horticulture.
 <azure> Trout, I'm working under the umbrella of James Mooney/Oklevueha NAC and starting a branch that is inclusive of non-natives in my area. One of the big concerns for the NAC is the dwindling supply as well as growing need for the sacrament: what're your practical recommendations for conservation and meeting these needs?
 <@trout> Its a no-brainer. CULTIVATE WHAT GETS EATEN. An old saying is that its easiest to pick apples if you cut down the tree first. Its baffling more NAC groups are not exploring cultivation as its a darn easy cactus to grow.
 <@trout> please visit www.cactusconservation.org
 <azure> there are some strange attitudes in the NAC per cultivation
 <@trout> One NAC group has a proposal in the hands of the DEA trying to determine what will be required.
 <psych> trout, for how long can I keep san pedro seeds viable ?
 <@trout> Many years but refrigeration is suggested. They should be good for at least 5 years but I've seen year old seeds still show some germination.
 <psych> good
 <@pkeffect> i would guess alot like spores, around 42f and dry
 <azure> john ott mentions that trichos could serve as a substitute, which makes sense to me...but good luck legitimizing that idea in the NAC
 <psych> ive some from 2004, no refrigeration tho
 <@trout> Yep. Gibberelic acid can help older seeds.
 <@trout> 2004 should sprout fine.
 <@Syd> trout, i just wanted firstly to say how great a hobby you have chosen.
 <@Syd> it is an intrest of many of us here
 <psych> heh
 <@Syd> also i have a question, When will they have finished testing for alkaloid content on the differant lophophoras and where will we get the results?

 <@trout> Trichos do not taste right to the NAC and are not part of their traditional mythos. It would take a north-south meeting to cross those medicine paths within the NAC. Perhaps possible but not likely to find widepread acceptance as to them it is not a mescaline issue but a sacrament issue.

 <@trout> Work on the Lophos is underway. Watch the cactusconservation website for data releases.
 <azure> very true
 <@khronus> Trout, for those ^maybe new to cacti, or not so well read/experienced could you give a brief description of the morphological differences between San pedro (T.pachanoi) and Peruvian torch (T.peruvianus) and the easiest way to tell them apart ?
 <@trout> That is a tricky issue as there is no dividing line. A whole spectrum of intermediates exist.

 <@trout> Pachanoi can have long spines but they tend to be thinner. How to separate the intermdiates and hybrids is a huge mess.
 <@Syd> ^maybe a more simplistic question, Are there alkaloids in thorns, which cause a burning sensation, and if so, which ones?
 <@Syd> for those of us new to cacti as my friend ^khronus has mentioned
 <@trout> It is quite likely they are one species with peruvianus a subspecies. I suspect this may hold true for bridgesii as well. I say this based on their flowers not on simple morphology.
 <@trout> Bacteria on the spines cause infections and burning. Its not alkaloids.
 <@Syd> so is that an effect of an environment
 <@trout> In a generic sense peruvianus often has long stout spines. Pachanoi often has short spines.
 <@trout> Environment can affect organisms causing infections sure. It can also affect spine length.
 <@khronus>   Ok thankyou, is there any difference between rib number, angle etc?
 <@trout> Environment can affect a lot of features of cacti. A single clone grown outdoors can get to look quite different than one in a greenhouse
 <@trout> Rib numbers mean almost nothing. Pachanoi and peruvianus can vary all over. Usually 6 or 7 ribs but more or less are possible for both.
 <@khronus> Another questions from an absent member, What is the difference between the T.werdermannianus T.werdermannianii and T. Terschekii?
 <@trout> Terscheckii gets larger faster in cultivation.
 <@trout> At one point they got lumped but this seems to be an error.
 <@trout> Werdermannianus also tends to flower from the tips, terscheckii along the sides from the tip down. Floral tubes are also distinct.
 <eupho> First, forgive me if I am lacking in the explicit understanding of your work as a biochemist?/taxonomist/horticulturist. Some of us have lesser an access to hard bound literature than others. Have you Trout, as a working professional in the collective venues afore mentioned come under any fire of scrutiny for your academic efforts in any regard?
 <eupho> It could be well understood your choice of research is a bit obscure for the general individual in law enforcement, and I am sure that your research is sanctioned whole heartedly as a result of your work with tribal reserves;
 <eupho> but if so,
 <eupho> what general procedures would you recommend having dealt with such in terms of presenting (politically) unconventional ideas as to make them more palatable to academia and contemporaries in your field? It can be quite a gamble to work with these substances surreptitiously! This draconian over rule of utter prohibition in regards to the utilization of ligands which so resemble our own neuropeptides is utterly unfounded from most logica
 <@trout> No, I'm just a writer so am not perceived of as a problem. I doubt anyone who might object has any great love for what I do.
 <@trout> The most important thing for workers who want to work with these plants is to do so openly and will all permits required. Clandestine activity is not only risky but can't be published freely.
 <eupho> i would call you of the lucky few, touched by destiny then.
 <@trout> There are lots of us actually.
 <@khronus> Trout, -Have you done any more work with the genus Delosperma since what was written in Trout's Notes on Some Other Succulents? Any new active species?
 <@trout> A lot of fear rules the picture today. Its unlikely to respond to logic but as the oldest generation dies a younger generation with a larger sense of possibilities steps into their places.
 <@Syd> Trout maybe you would like a break here for a few minutes
 <eupho> Then it bears resemblence to reverse engineering, figuratively and literally, it is good to hear that! thankyou
 <@Syd> some time for people to soak up your words
 <@Syd> and possibly some water
 <@trout> No, but I think others are working with the Aizoceae right now
 <@trout> Don't get stressed over the things that can't be impacted and focus only where we have some personal power.
 <roach> what are your thougths of the alkaloid content of Stenocereus Hystrix? Is it a worth while sub for peyote and T peruvianus
 <@trout> Is it hystrix?
 <roach> Ritterocereus Hystrix
 <@trout> I can't seem to obtain a live cutting of it. First ones were dead and the next ones were all rot.
 <@trout> It needs ID confirmation and then testing.
<@trout> Its seen a fair number of names.
 <roach> if the tor spreads to other cacti will consan kill the fungus?
 <@trout> EG commented they thought it might be a hybrid and only one stand was active. The only published test (from Jamaica I think) showed no alkaloid at all. No way to extrapolate that to EG's offering.
 <@trout> Consan is good for fungus and lots of things. No guarentee it will work but its the best thing to try. SOmetimes a soak is needed.
 <psych> trout, what are your interests in others plants beside cactus?
 <psych> i mean, entheogens
 <@trout> I'm facinated by all medicinal and aromatic plants. Especially the adaptogens and incense plants.
 <@trout> Aloes wood or palo santo for instance. Why can such smells trigger such immensity of emotion and memory?
 <psych> i dunno what are adaptogens
 <@kemp> Ginseng is a common one
 <@trout> ANything supporting normal immune or energy. Ginseng, cordyceps, etc
 ^azure is quite fond of rhodiola these days as an adaptogen
 <psych> somewhat medicinal as well
 <@trout> Rhodiola is great. I love it mixed with cordyceps.
 <psych> googled it.
 ^azure will try that
 <azure> really appreciate what you just said about working w/in personal empowerment; in what areas do you see a doorway into working legitimately within the plant-medicine path, and especially the visionary plant-medicine path? (for me, it has been NAC and now Santo Daime)
 <@trout> The future is entirely what we create. No one who opposes this topic is going to change their mind in response to logic. Organization and thinking outside of the box is crucial. I'm uncertain their is a doorway yet. I think this may still need construction. The NAC is increasingly closed for most and the UdV/Santo Daime is tightly controlled so far as the particpants but intriguing in potential.
 <@khronus> I have a question I should have appended to a previous one conerning delosperma -In your book it is not clear to me exactly how high the alkaloid levels are of DMT containing Delosperma. It says "a nice dark band" or "a weak band", but how does this compare to standard DMT plants like Psychotria Virdis or Mimosa Hostillis? Were any of the species active enough to have been used in an unrefined form?
 <@trout> We do not know as we did not quantitatives. The stench of oxalic acid suggests other plants are better choices.
 <@khronus> thankyou :)  
 <@trout> It seems more sensible to focus on the best tried and trues and regard others as interesting but in need of more research.
 <eupho> Trout, could you briefly outline/share some of the points in the process of effectively doping cacti or any other means of psychotheraputic potentiation in these lesser know psychoactive succulents/enlighten us with some expert clues in identification of more palpably "ready" specimens?
 <@trout> Its a red herring. Most of anything administered will stay unconverted.
 <@trout> Its better to choose better plants.
 <@trout> Feeding with an ammonium containing nitrogen source like blood meal can help.
 <eupho> i had a feeling you would say that :)
 <@pkeffect> trout, I was wondering if you know of a good source for live diplopterys cabrerana (chaliponga) ?
 <@trout> I would be happy to discuss that in more depth than this exchange can permit. www.accurateinformationmedia.com
 <eupho> that is a good answer
 ^pkeffect left all his entheogens with his mom when he moved to canada
 <@pkeffect> they are just houseplants to her
 <eupho> heheh
 <@trout> DIstributing nice plants as widely as possible is a great thing. Especially if viewed as just houseplants
 ^pkeffect nods
 <@pkeffect> viridis makes a lovely houseplant
 <@khronus> ok here come the straggler
 <oghran> sorry :)
 <@pkeffect> hola andy
 <@Syd> i knew it!
 <@Syd> i knew ud show
 <oghran> was otherwise detained by tea and smokes
 <@Syd> hi
 <oghran> :/
 <@trout> Iboga makes a particularly nice indoor potted plant in any situation where a schefflera would enjoy living.
 <@pkeffect> i should look into cultivation that since it is legal here
 <@pkeffect> cultivating even
 <@trout> Its really easy once its up. Don't let it dry out though!
 <@pkeffect> i hear the germination rates decrease exponetially by the month
 <@pkeffect> ?
 <@pkeffect> on iboga seeds
 <Lucious> any thoughts of the mystery active substance reportedly coming out mimosa extractions?
 <@trout> Yes. The fresher the better. Nick and soak them until swollen. Don't discard the seeds for sake of being old though - they can just take much longer to come up.
 <@pkeffect> so pretty much like germinating brugmansia
 <@pkeffect> should bleach be added to the soak ?
 <@trout> I think Callaway worked that out but I would need to get to my files. Email me and I can send the reference to his paper.
 <@trout> I would use peroxide not bleach but usually do not use it either.
 <@pkeffect> ok
 <@trout> I do change water every few hours though.
 <@kemp> any thoughts on bufotenin, Trout?
 <@kemp> I think recently Ott has said its more hallucinogenic than previously thought
 ^CennyDJing is now dj'ing
 <@trout> It active but not that interesting except in combinations such as acacia obtusifolia extract. Its active but is more sedative than most and is distressing if too much is ingested. Most people do not care for it at all.
 <CennyDJing> tune in: http://yage.net:9000
 <CennyDJing> "Within's Within: Scenes from the Psychedelic Revolution"
 <@pkeffect> i will agree, befotenin is physically uncomfortable
 <@trout> Thanks but this computer lacks sound capabilities.
 <azure> http://entheology.org/edoto/anmviewer.asp?a=9&z=8
 <CennyDJing> sucks man sorry
 <@trout> Bufotenine is sort of interesting within a narrow window but sort of seems to be the operative word.
 <@trout> Is it possible to link to the music from elsewhere later?
 <@kemp> using that link http://yage.net:9000 at anytime
 <@khronus> cenny does a show Trout every saturday
 <@khronus> but you need a quicker conenction i am afraid :(
 ^azure is filled with an urge to sow a bunch of seeds all the sudden
 <@trout> Thanks!
 <azure> ;)
 <@khronus> we used to havea stream ok for 556k but its currently down
 <@khronus> 56k
 <@trout> It sounds like I need to visit a wireless cafe.
 <CennyDJing> haha
 ^pkeffect stares at ^azure
 <azure> *chuckle*
 <@pkeffect> i need to sow some things as well
 <CennyDJing> well the show is on, but i defer to Mr. Trout for the chat :)
 <@Syd> trout, i must say, his show is worth a trip to the cafe
 <@Syd> at least once
 <@trout> I'm also always open for private conversations and a return visit here?
 <azure> gonna ^maybe start talkin' with some of the native elders about the cultivation issue...thing is, everything is always a 'sensitive issue' with the elders
 ^pkeffect thinks the psilocybin genre needs reclassification as bad as trichos
 <@kemp> yes please! do return!
 <Lucious> yeah!
 <azure> return, hell yea!
 <eupho> everyone is welcome always
 <@kemp> we'd love to have you anytime  :)
 <@Syd> it was most enjoyable
 <@Syd> i second that
 <eupho> les the server crashes :)
 <@kemp> hehe
 <@khronus> ^azure if cultivation is not an option, and it certaintly would help if it was, then one would have to look at habitat management of natural peyote resources
 <@trout> I think Guzman is working on that. HIs updated monograph is supposed to be out next year at some point. Its already seen some huge changes but I can't wait to see it.
 <@Syd> if u turn off notify u wont see the crashes
 <@Syd> u wont see anything else either
 <azure> there's no reason why cultivation should be an issue, really
 <@Syd> but it looks flawless
 <@pkeffect> nice, me either
 <@pkeffect> i know my list is very outdated
 <@khronus> you are of course welcome back Mr Trout!
 <azure> there are some Old Crows though, have the highest respect for 'em all...
 <azure> there's the idea that cultivated sacrament is inferior
 <@kemp> really?
 <azure> which is a less than adaptable idea
 <@pkeffect> wow
 <azure> it's not THAT widespread an idea...but there's the feeling that some of the wild-harvested is closer to god
 <@khronus> well, lets take it away from the scientific perspective, maybe there is something more powerful in natural peyote, in the sense of the intent used, the ritual of the peyote hunt etc
 <@trout> Natural peyote habitat is too compromised. Eat it until its gone does not cut it. Three remaining peyoteros contract to supply the 1.5 million cactus harvested each year for the NAC. MExico has peyote but also its own peyote using people so its really wrong to suggest that the destructive peyote harvest practices be expanded.
 <@khronus> however natural reserves are depleting are they not ?
 <@khronus> yes
 <@khronus> indeed
 <azure> yea, 3 peyoteros...
 <azure> and they're all singing the same tune, that there's less and less
 <eupho> that sounds problematic
 <@trout> Peyote seeds are not even being returned to the wild. Plants are regularly harvested long before their first flower. I have joked about the Catholic peyoteros apparently believing in immaculate germination.
 <@kemp> haha
 <azure> and yea, have heard talk of 'importing from mexico,' but I think the huichol...more than just about any group, has claim to their practice and sacrament
 <azure> seems cultivation is the key
 <@trout> Plants the size od a dime or a quarter prdominate in the curent harvests. Images are at cactusconservation under the "Button, Button" article
 <azure> immaculate germination
 <azure> lol
 <@pkeffect> ive had that happen with spores
 <@pkeffect> heh
 <@trout> Huge populations in MExico are being decimated and are being dug up with their roots. Tiny babies are too but they are being left on the ground to die.
 <azure> would be nice if we had habitat here in new mexico
 <@trout> The Navajo love using peyote root tea. Lots of educational issues are involved but its not clear how it can happen.
 <CennyDJing> seems like who 'owns' the land determines its usage
 <@trout> A shade house and peyote grows fine in NM.
 <azure> yea...i'm marrying a navajo, and they can be stubborn
 <azure> god bless 'em
 <azure> shade house, i'll email you at some point
 ^pkeffect is limited for space for succulents in canada not having a greenhouse
 <@trout> PEyote exists in healthy populations anywhere people can't harvest from intact biosystems.
 <@Syd> who 'owns' the land is debatable
 <CennyDJing> that's why i put it in quotations
 <CennyDJing> nobody owns the land
 <@pkeffect> the world bank *cough*
 <CennyDJing> but people think they do
 <@trout> "Owning" land is a debateable concept
 <@khronus> I wonder if much ecological work has been done on peyote
 <CennyDJing> and act like they do
 <CennyDJing> and cause good or damage by their claim
 <@trout> I'd suggest we are just borrowing it.
 <@khronus> or how is it, " looking after it for our children"
 <CennyDJing> i was being sarcastic
 <azure> this group does re-planting a couple times a year
 <eupho> lol@pk
 <CennyDJing> nothing is truly 'owned' when we are all passing through
 <Lucious> either that or it owns us.
 <azure> just hard, there's the whole education issue
 <@trout> Kimberly Cover and Clarissa Kimbrough have bouth written papers on peyote ecology and economic botany respectively.
 <@khronus> I shall check those out Trout thankyou
 <@trout> Also see the conservation status article at cactusconservation for a look at Mexico today.
 <azure> and i need to be more educated myself, clearly
 <@trout> I need to take off but will talk with spiritplants about returning. Feel free to email me with questions or conversations. Thanks for interacting. Love kt
 <@pkeffect> thanks for coming Trout
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Bushpig »

Offline OBODAOUR

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« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2008, 06:22:38 PM »
Wow what a great chat, really wish I could of made it! Well maybe next time. :D

Peace,
ObOdAoUr
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by OBODAOUR »

Offline boomer2

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« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2008, 07:02:26 AM »
Thanks Bushpig for posting the online chat with Trout, I wish he would have talked more about the tryptamines, maybe next time,

thanks for sharing, a great read,

boomer2
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by boomer2 »
God is a plant known as the Earth!

Offline Bushpig

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« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2008, 07:37:58 AM »
Not a prob Boomer, apologies it took me so long to get it up there.  Trout expressed interest in returning for another session so there will be opportunity :)

Booshpig
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Bushpig »