Author Topic: Macs vs. Windows PCs (again)  (Read 15778 times)

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Offline TroutMask

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Macs vs. Windows PCs (again)
« on: December 31, 2006, 11:10:09 AM »
Howdy, I'm moving this discussion out of The Groove where it started to infect the Music Videos thread. I think it goes better here. To continue, here is Fuzz's response to my statement that I only use Macs:

Quote
For Macs and gayness.
Having learned computer graphics on a Mac, cause i was in a school in which the multimedia dept had deals with Mac, as many/most graphics programs dpts, i still think that the only valid reason to get a Mac is: cause it looks cute, and they have cool design. But technically speaking, only good reason years ago to get a Mac was because they truly did have better graphic cards. Also, they had FCP (Final Cut Pro), a movie editing prog, that kicks ass (my fav). BUT, it is now also available for PC.

Working on Macs (super loaded G4's at the time), i crashed about 4/5 times a day, and on PC's i didn't. One more good reason for me to use PCs for now (until i have a nice office and i want to look cool for those that still think that Mac is the shit; and only until i find Krishna and start singing songs in an orange turban, in which time of course i will no longer have needs for such illusions as computers and the high tech world;).

The graphic cards being now as good for PCs or Macs, and FCP being for both platforms, makes the Mac fanatics, just as i said: just gay (no offence to the proud gays in here. Think of Mac users as still in the closet;). Some die-hard fans might still want to try to convince non fans that "its better for music stuff" (if you HAVE to use Logic), "it's way anti globalization man!!" "screw Bill Gates!!", "you dont understand the diferences in architecture beween a PC and a Mac!"(and here comes a relatively interesting tech talk), but moslty i think they're just high.

Its cute, and it goes well with a cool Star Trek collection, it also looks great with nice shoes, but, thats all.


And now, my response:

G4, eh? Were you using OS 9 too? OS X is the definition of stability. Os 9 is more comparable to Windows 3.11 as far as stability. And you've never seen the blue screen of death from a  Windows PC? What a very lucky person you are!

Technically speaking: There is no longer a hardware comparison between Macs and PCs. Macs use Intel chips, PC RAM, PC graphics cards, PC everything except the operating system. The only comparison now is the operating system: Windows XP (or Vista, they say it's much more Mac-like) and OS X. Arguments over Mac vs. PC hardware are moot, relegated to history.

As a developer, I have to work with both Windows and Macs every day. I only use Windows to view websites in Windows IE and Firefox and to run an occasional Windows app to integrate (e.g., Quickbooks) or convert data. The reasons I use a Mac for my work are as follows:

1. Viruses and spyware. I don't have time for them. I keep Windows in it's own little cage so if/when something goes wrong I can delete the entire Windows installation and start over. None of my work is affected, as I keep it on the Mac side. In 10 years of using Macs, I have never had a single virus nor any spyware. I haven't had to "back up and punt" because I couldn't hunt down the bit of code that has hosed my system. And please, dear Jehosaphat, get rid of the frigging registry; the cluttered arcane cause and fix for so many problems. Serious question: Is there a way to prevent Windows from "installing updates" before a reboot? I'd love to be able to reboot without waiting and I'm guessing there is a setting somewhere to allow me to do this. ??

2. Adherence to web standards and Linux compatibility. I primarily develop Unix/Linux-based web applications using PHP/MySQL. Using a Mac, I am in the target environment from the start. Anything I develop on my Mac can be copied over to a Unix/Linux system without changing a thing. Not so on Windows. Not only is directory structure incompatible but many PHP functions work improperly or not at all. Plus I get paid a lot of money to migrate web applications from Windows systems to Linux systems because the cost of maintaining Windows is too high. Hosting companies invariable charge more for Windows hosting.

3. It just works. If I have to search the web for one more Windows driver, I'm going to jump out a window. Why can't I just plug my digital camera, Wacom tablet or scanner into a Windows PC and have it work without jumping through the "new device detected" and download driver hoops?

4. No limitations. Now that Macs are using Intel chips and can run Windows natively, a Windows PC is a Mac without the ability to run OS X. My Mac will boot Windows, Linux (or other X varieties) or OS X and can run Windows, Linux and a variety of other operating systems at near-native speeds via virtualization. Hey, you don't want to run OS X? Don't. But I can and do for the other reasons in this list.

5. Price. That's a shocker, eh? Well, since Macs now use PC hardware, the price of a Mac is similar or in some cases less expensive than a comparably configured Windows PC. Here is a price comparison between a Mac Pro and a similarly configured Dell:

http://www.macworld.com/2006/08/opinion ... /index.php

Quote: "The Mac Pro's price advantage over the Dell is robust—it holds up under many different 'comparable' configurations. Granted, it's smaller in some scenarios, but the Dell never even gets within $500."

An important caveat:

"Although those who build their own PCs probably won’t be persuaded to buy a Mac, people in the market for a pre-configured computer are discovering that, apart from the feature-lacking low end, where Apple chooses not to play, Macs are increasingly price-competitive."

Personally, I would no more build my own computer than build my own car. My time is too valuable. And sure, this is from a Mac website. I'd be glad to read an article that proves the opposite.

6. Better apps. I don't want 100 different options for "financial software," dammit! I want one or a few options that work right. I don't want to download and install 10000 different games to find one that a. Has no trojan virus, b. Works properly and c. Is fun. Only the best apps are available for Macs. I don't have the time to be inundated with a thousand versions of "Joe and Fred's Game They Figured Out How to Develop Using VB 6." Give me solid, polished, finished apps using a standard look and feel, with all the Okay and Cancel buttons in the right place. And NO TROJANS regardless of where I download.

7. Your reasons! "...it looks cute, and they have cool design...it goes well with a cool Star Trek collection,  it also looks great with nice shoes." Not to mention upgrading or adding to the Mac Pro hardware couldn't be easier.

Anyway, that's all for now. I should probably do some work. :-)

-TM
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by TroutMask »
I am an agnostic; I do not pretend to know what many ignorant men are sure of. - Clarence Darrow

Offline laughingwillow

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« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2006, 03:17:30 PM »
LOL quote fuzz: "...it looks cute, and they have cool design...it goes well with a cool Star Trek collection, it also looks great with nice shoes."

I thought that statement was pretty gay until I realized you are a girl. Then it all made sense.....

lw
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by laughingwillow »
Lost my boots in transit, babe,
smokin\' pile of leather.
Nailed a retread to my feet
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Offline Satori

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« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2007, 10:44:39 AM »
Quote from: "laughingwillow"
LOL quote fuzz: "...it looks cute, and they have cool design...it goes well with a cool Star Trek collection, it also looks great with nice shoes."

I thought that statement was pretty gay until I realized you are a girl. Then it all made sense.....

lw


Yeah... What's wrong with Star Trek??!!!??? Fuzz!?

Anyway... I have a windows machine... I hate windows.. THought about getting a mac to try it... when i start earning some money and can afford two machines one will prolly be mac... or a machine with a linux OS... but I think Linux would be too techy for me.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Satori »
"... the fundamental striving of every man should be to create for himself an inner freedom towards life and to prepare for himself a happy old age." - Gurdjieff

Offline laughingwillow

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« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2007, 11:20:02 AM »
My wife runs XP on her Dell laptop and loves it for the business apps. But I prefer my cute little mac mini for my photo/music/surfing pleasure.

Apple's educational discounts are nice, too.

lw
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by laughingwillow »
Lost my boots in transit, babe,
smokin\' pile of leather.
Nailed a retread to my feet
and prayed for better weather...

Offline fuzz

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« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2007, 05:00:26 PM »
Very cool Trout. Thank for your complete answer. interesting stuff indeed, and good idea for creating this thread.

At the school time,  the mutlimedia dpt had OS 9, and then upgraded to OS X. I actually did not like the interface of OS X, no real reason, it's a personal feel, and i just didnt enjoy the feel of it, it felt too much like a plastic toy to me.
And, nopes, never seen the blue screen of death on pcs yet (knock on wood), and, yeah, macs crashed regularly.

prices:
interesting to see that prices are getting comparable.  was still under the impression than macs still are more expensive.
"Hosting companies invariable charge more for Windows hosting. " interesting  did not know this.


"Is there a way to prevent Windows from "installing updates" before a reboot?"
i have no clue, maybe someone more knowladgable about this can answer?

as Satori, if i had the money, i'd have a mac and a pc, just so i can have FCP, which i love as a program, and just cause i love macs design.
macs have way better design than pcs for sure, and i love a good design, but  would not get a mac for any technical reasons.
i'd also love to learn how to build my own machine, and learn more about the hardware part, as well as learning linux stuff. all in due time:)

Satori!!! yIDoghQo' !! thats "dont be silly" in Klingon. you know i love ST;) but you do have to admit it is totally gay. Come on, its a bunch of freaky humans in tight outfits cruising through space hahahaah!

to gayness and all that cool stuff:)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by fuzz »
<source unknown> does anyone have a computer in here?

Offline cenacle

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« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2007, 06:37:24 PM »
my Mac Book Pro is awesome but it runs slow on some programs that aren't native to it yet. Does anyone else have this issue? I rarely reboot but often enough have to restart frozen programs, and the slowness bugs me. Wondering what others think.

PS--Hey Fuzz, I've noticed many bitter anti-Mac PC owners buy one when they get the cash, or just jump to Linux when they get sick of 'doze heh :P  :twisted:

Oh, and on a less mocking note, once you adjust to OSX you find the differences and improvements over OS9 are unbelievable :)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by cenacle »

Offline Indra

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« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2007, 07:59:57 PM »
An Apple Computer interjection:

I like Macs, personally, for the solid OS, and yes, for the cute slick-hip design. I've never worked with pre-OS X, but OS X is my fav out of the operating systems I've worked with lately (Win 2000, Win XP, Win Vista, Win Server 2003, slackware, redhat, mandrake, gentoo, and freeBSD).
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Indra »
Dubs Ough d.

Offline fuzz

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« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2007, 05:00:30 AM »
cool that we all got diferent personal tastes and feel about stuff.
about biterness cenacle, that'd be silly to get bitter about such pety things as personal puter taste. that'd almost be as silly as beng biter cause someone has diferent socks than you! its just socks man!!!

i just think that most people's arguments for choosing a mac are ridiculous and technically wrong. but if people have real and actual reasons for their choices, such as Trout, then its all cool to me.
for anything, any choice, i just like thinking people actually have valid reasons, or else its just fashion (of course fashion does have some fascinating aspects too, but lets keep this for another thread;)

i've had the opportunity to buy a mac, i just chose other wise. for last machine, i chose a kick ass customized puter with killer graphic cards, for my 3d use. also, i enjoy supporting small stores that build their own machines.

in the end i dont think there is one that's "better" or "worse", its personal feels and decisions due to the use each one has with their puter. design can come in the choice as well, but really i think its more about how one feels, and what one needs when using the beast.
for exemple IPod, my sis got one, i chose another type, cause i just dont like the way it feels, that button turning stuff being annoying to me.

anyhows. hope everyone is happy with their puters, no matter what color, or what socks it wears, and that all recovered from this end of year fiestas.

and bw..i'll have a Doc Pepper with that :D  :D
« Last Edit: January 02, 2007, 09:16:47 AM by fuzz »
<source unknown> does anyone have a computer in here?

Offline Indra

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« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2007, 07:28:12 AM »
Sometimes, I intentionally wear two differently colored socks.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Indra »
Dubs Ough d.

Offline laughingwillow

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« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2007, 08:41:55 AM »
quote fuzz: i just think that most people's arguments for choosing a mac are ridiculous and technically wrong. but if people have real and actual reasons for their choices, such as Trout, then its all cool to me.

For someone who could care less what type of computer folks use, you are sure coming off like The Decider, fuzz. I'm guessing you'll be attempting to regulate post content next. Oh wait, we been der, done dat. hahahahahaha

Coke classic for me!

lw
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by laughingwillow »
Lost my boots in transit, babe,
smokin\' pile of leather.
Nailed a retread to my feet
and prayed for better weather...

Offline fuzz

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« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2007, 09:14:44 AM »
nah laughing willow. go ahead, ramble, open billions of threads, say all the stupid stuff you want:) lets start pasting porn, and real cool stuff, since as you said: "This place has been dead for as long as its been up."  you're totally right, lets just trash it now.

question is: why are you hanging out in a dead place?

and actually, no i dont agree with you. i still like this place as much as i did when i started hanging round here, and i take it for what it is: a collection of various poeple with difering opinions and informations.
and yeah sometimes i even voice out an opinion or 2, if you choose to see that as anything but opinions, that is your choice.
in case you can not read an entire post, here is a copy/paste from my last reply:
"in the end i dont think there is one that's "better" or "worse", its personal feels and decisions due to the use each one has with their puter."
if you see such opinions as "The Decider"s opinion, it's your enlightened choice.

i am glad your wise and open mind can handle various opinions in such an objective manner. thank you for being so enlightning with your brightness:)

happy new year 2007 to you too :D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by fuzz »
<source unknown> does anyone have a computer in here?

Offline laughingwillow

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« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2007, 10:15:47 AM »
Naw, fuzz, the real question, imo, is why do you feel the need to control others actions?

I'm here because this is where I meet up with many long time friends from back in the day of spf.

Btw, I fail to see how "dead" can be equated with inappropriate content. And I don't see anyone here posting porn around these parts. Opinions on a topic are one thing and critiquing another posters content quite another, imo.

Heres' another quote of yours from above: i just think that most people's arguments for choosing a mac are ridiculous and technically wrong. but if people have real and actual reasons for their choices, such as Trout, then its all cool to me.

Now you appear to be saying that I should give more validity to the statements you put at the end of your posts rather than the beginning?

I'll even break it down a little more for you, sistah.... quote fuzz: but if people have real and actual reasons for their choices, such as Trout, then its all cool to me.

I ask again, who died and made you the Decider?

No offense, but I just get a little tired of young, smug, know-it-all, vegetarian hippies wanting to change the world.

lw
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by laughingwillow »
Lost my boots in transit, babe,
smokin\' pile of leather.
Nailed a retread to my feet
and prayed for better weather...

Offline fuzz

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« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2007, 10:18:50 AM »
lol old fart:)
no comment from me, you seem to know it all already.

i'll just sit back and learn from such a wise man as yourself and i'll even have a nice juicy chicken tonight on your honor:)
with mashed tatoes, butter and all that cool stuff.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by fuzz »
<source unknown> does anyone have a computer in here?

Offline TooStonedToType

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« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2007, 10:48:04 AM »
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by TooStonedToType »
...and as if from the inception of time itself I realized I was and had been for sometime, elsewhere, elsewhen or somehow, quite seriously, otherwise...

Offline TroutMask

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« Reply #14 on: January 02, 2007, 11:11:41 AM »
My only point is that if you're going to make a blanket statement that "Macs are for fags," you better have a good reason for it. That's all I'm saying.

For those who have a technically wrong reason to use Macs, there are 100 more that have a technically wrong reason to use a Windows PC (e.g., they can't run Windows software, they are too slow, they are more expensive.) My Mac can do anything a PC can do at the same price, but my Mac can also do a LOT of stuff a PC *can't* do. If that makes me a fag, then bend me over and slap me silly!

-TM
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by TroutMask »
I am an agnostic; I do not pretend to know what many ignorant men are sure of. - Clarence Darrow