Author Topic: Aya recipes wanted.....  (Read 6594 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline laughingwillow

  • *
  • Posts: 2824
    • View Profile
Aya recipes wanted.....
« on: April 02, 2010, 11:25:24 AM »
I'm collecting information on the preparation of ayahuasca and would appreciate any and all input from the community. I know there may be sites specializing in this topic, but I would rather glean information from people here at spr, if possible.

Please feel free to send a pm if you don't want to participate in a public conversation concerning the topic at hand.

Thanks in advance.

lw
Lost my boots in transit, babe,
smokin\' pile of leather.
Nailed a retread to my feet
and prayed for better weather...

Offline Amomynous

  • *
  • Posts: 553
    • View Profile
Re: Aya recipes wanted.....
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2010, 08:52:42 PM »
Ayahuasca is basically cooking, and like other forms of cooking, it's not hard, but it can take a little practice before it comes our right.

I don't have a lot of time right now, so I'll start with the basics: the caapi vine. If you have questions about the admixtures let me know.

I've been cooking ayahuasca for something like eight years now, and I've tried a lot of things--some hi-tech, some low--and at this point I like to keep things very simple. Works better that way!

Also, like cooking, there isn't one recipe or one way of doing things. What follows is just what I tend to do, and it works well.

1) Start with good vine (at least one board member here can help you out with that, as his vine is very good). A lot of people get obsessed with vine colors and varieties, and while there are some differences, talking a lot about them is like geeking out on fine wines. The important thing is getting good vine of any variety and getting it in you. I've recommend a simple ceilo or white variety.

2) Some vine comes pre-shredded, and that's OK, but you can't really see what you're getting, so I like to work with whole vine pieces. You'll need to hammer them until they're very fibrous. This can take a while, but you get into a rhythm and it's actually kind of nice. Optionally you can grind it up more finely after hammering with something like a coffee grinder or food processor. I like to do this, but it isn't strictly necessary.

3) Soak the vine, at least overnight. This is especially important if you're processing the vine yourself. At the end of soaking it should be water-logged and will sink to the bottom. In case your water is a little hard, add a bit of white distilled vinegar. Just a splash--maybe 15-20ml / liter-- will do.

Common doses are 50-100 grams per serving. I usually cook about 75, but bodies very widely. Some folks get strong, reliable results from as little as 30-40 grams of good vine, but I like to use at least 75.

4) Simmer. I simmer the vine is a slow cooker (croc pot). Simmer for four to eight hours. Use plenty of water: My standard size croc pot will make a good five servings at a time, but the water is pretty full at that point.

5) Drain the water a simmer again. Again, use a splash of vinegar.

6) Simmer a third time with fresh water.

7) Take all three simmerings and filter well. This can be a bit of a challenge, specially if you've finely processed your herbs. Muslin or cotton cloth is a common way to filter. I actually tend to go high-tech here (I filter through facial tissue under vacuum with a Bruchner funnel, but this isn't necessary; I just happen to have the equipment and it works well.

8 ) Reduce. This can take a long time! I like my tea concentrated, so I like to get it down to about 50-75 ml per serving. Some people cook it a little thinner, but I wouldn't go much over 100 or 125 ml per serving. When it gets low be careful not to burn it. It can be reduced with a healthy boil, but you will probably want to turn things down a bit at the end; there is nothing more frustrating that working a few days on a batch of tea and ruining it at the end. It's not uncommon to take six or more hours to reduce a batch of, say, four or five servings.

9) If there is much caramalization you may want to let it stand a little while to let the most egregious stuff settle out, but in general you'll mix and drink the sediment.

The tea will keep a long time if frozen, and probably a few weeks in the  fridge, longer if it's bottled without air.

Offline laughingwillow

  • *
  • Posts: 2824
    • View Profile
Re: Aya recipes wanted.....
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2010, 08:10:07 AM »
Thanks, mon. That's what I wanted.

What about admixtures? Is mimosa hostilis root bark an admixture or substitute for caapi??

Thanks mon.

lw
Lost my boots in transit, babe,
smokin\' pile of leather.
Nailed a retread to my feet
and prayed for better weather...

Offline senorsalvia

  • *
  • Posts: 1195
    • View Profile
Re: Aya recipes wanted.....
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2010, 01:10:19 PM »
I'd opine that mimosa hostilis must be, by definition considered an admixture as opposed to a direct replacement/substitute for the vine..  Easy to figure out if one is looking at the commonly held relationship between 'the light' and 'the power'...  The vine is a monoamine inhibitor, while 'the power', such as mimosa/chacruna/chalipongra etc are the allies that contain DMT...Practitioners use the MAOI to release and allow the DMT to become orally active instead of naturally inhibited whithin the gut....
Cognitive Liberty:  Think About It!!

Offline Amomynous

  • *
  • Posts: 553
    • View Profile
Re: Aya recipes wanted.....
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2010, 05:14:02 PM »
Yes, juream (M. hostillis) is an admixture.

The thing about it is that it's kind of tricky to work with, for a couple of reason.

First off, of all the admixture herbs commonly employed it is the highest in visionary alkaloids, so small variations in the quantity used, as well as your skill in extracting it, can have really big effects.

Complicating this is the fact that people's sensitivity to the alkaloids varies widely. And as an herbal, potency varies pretty widely too.

A common question is "how much should I use?" And that's a very hard question to answer!

I know people who have had reality shattering experiences with 3 grams or so, and I know people who require much more--say, 10 grams or potentially even more, although that is fairly uncommon. I know people who have freaked out on five or so grams and had a really hard time, including thinking they're dying, trashing their houses, calling the ambulance, etc.

Unless you have experience with it, it is hard to know how it will affect you, and previous psychedelic experience isn't always a good indicator of how it will affect you. If you do have extensive experience, though, I would say that five grams should be an absolute maximum until you know how you react, and even that it probable a good deal higher than most experienced people would recommend.

In terms or preparing it, the easiest way is just to break it into small pieces, shred it with a top-loading coffee grinder, and just cook it with the vine itself. But jurema gives up its alkaloids more easily that caapi, so you can cook it separately using a similar process, but less time. Three cookings of say 1-1.5 hours is probably all you need to get most of the alkaloids from the plant matrix.

Depending upon how much you use, jurema can be the most awful tasting, foulest thing you have ever tasted. The problem is that the bark is extremely high in tannin (in fact, you can use it to tan leather if you want!). But in the same way that bad wine can be made drinkable through fining, you can also fine jurema, rendering it merely ghastly and horrible.

To fine, you would probably brew it separately from the caapi. After you've boiled thrice and filtered, allow the liquid to cool. Then add an egg white. Bring it back up to a boil while stirring. The egg white will coagulate, and the tannin in the liquid will largely bind to the egg, which can be filtered out. If you find that the liquid stays cloudy you can add a little vinegar to help it congeal; when filtered, the liquid should be red and transparent.

After you've extracted the bark, you can add it to the caapi for reduction, or you can reduce it separately and drink it a short while after the caapi (say, 10-20 minutes).

It's hard to predict how long it will take to hit you. I've had it come up as quickly as 20 minutes and as long as 2.5 hours, but I'd say an hour-ish is most common for people. Likewise the experience can last for as little as two hours, but I've had it run up to seven on occasions. There are just a lot of variables!

Offline laughingwillow

  • *
  • Posts: 2824
    • View Profile
Re: Aya recipes wanted.....
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2010, 05:19:14 PM »
Thanks, mon. I really appreciate the info.

You mention a minimum of three grams of dried bark. Does that mean three grams of raw material?

How long does a good dried bark last if kept in the dark?

Which admixture do you prefer?

Thanks again.

lw
Lost my boots in transit, babe,
smokin\' pile of leather.
Nailed a retread to my feet
and prayed for better weather...

Offline Amomynous

  • *
  • Posts: 553
    • View Profile
Re: Aya recipes wanted.....
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2010, 05:35:31 PM »
Quote from: "laughingwillow"
You mention a minimum of three grams of dried bark. Does that mean three grams of raw material?

Yep, three grams of dried bark. But that's not really a minimum: I know people who have had strong experiences with even less, although they are probably on the sensitive side.

Quote
How long does a good dried bark last if kept in the dark?

A long time, in my experience.

I once bought a kilogram from a mod here as part of a fundraiser for the board -- I think this may have been in the board's first incarnation. I kept the bark in mason jars in the freezer, and in five or six years it took to work through it I never really found much of a degradation. Cool and dark, I would think it would last a minimum of a few years.

Quote
Which admixture do you prefer?

I'm one of those people who are pretty hard-headed, so I can't really get good results from anything other than jurema. I've tried pretty hefty doses of chaliponga and could never really get anything more than a mild tea, despite the fact that it was good, known, potent material. And chacruna is even harder to achieve effects from. About five years ago I had one or two strong experiences in South American from chacruna, but my sensitivity seems to have dropped since then.

A lot of people like chaliponga (it tends to be pretty strong), and they like chacruna, provided they can get good stuff (which is hard; the best chacruna right now comes from Hawaii, from what I've been told).

Offline laughingwillow

  • *
  • Posts: 2824
    • View Profile
Re: Aya recipes wanted.....
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2010, 10:15:30 AM »
amom: When the vine is in the crock pot, is the lid on?

Heating on high or low?

Maybe a clue or a pm is in order to clue me in to the spf'er with quality vine?

Thanks.

lw
Lost my boots in transit, babe,
smokin\' pile of leather.
Nailed a retread to my feet
and prayed for better weather...

Offline Amomynous

  • *
  • Posts: 553
    • View Profile
Re: Aya recipes wanted.....
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2010, 10:57:23 AM »
Quote from: "laughingwillow"
amom: When the vine is in the crock pot, is the lid on?

Heating on high or low?

I guess it depends upon your crocpot, but I find it works best if it's just barely a simmer, and that usually means low, at least on mine.

Yes, I think it is best to keep the lid on to stop evaporation. You'll be cooking something like 4-8 hours for three times, and things can boil down a bit over eight hours.

Offline dendro

  • *
  • Posts: 400
    • View Profile
Re: Aya recipes wanted.....
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2010, 03:59:15 AM »
crock pot is the way to go, altho for big batches I have had good success with a 6gal steel pot on the stove.

Another tool I like is the vita mix blender. If the vine is very dry, short pieces can be smashed a little with a hammer, then soaked for a day or two, then fed into the blender until shredded. Then just toss all liquid and fiber into the pot.

Brah, you know I have vine, leaf too...   :bcool:
earth peace through self peace...

Offline Amomynous

  • *
  • Posts: 553
    • View Profile
Re: Aya recipes wanted.....
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2010, 09:04:02 AM »
Quote from: "dendro"
Brah, you know I have vine, leaf too...   :bcool:

I'll vouch for Dendro's cielo vine--great stuff.

I've brewed up about a kilo and a half of his vine (just finished up brewing a big batch this week), and I (and the folks I've been in ceremony with) have never had a complaint. This last pot of tea looks beautiful and delicious (metaphorically speaking, of course ;) ).