Author Topic: 1/21/17  (Read 5370 times)

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Offline cenacle

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Re: 1/21/17
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2017, 06:03:05 PM »
Stoney--


Some points here:


1 - Quit the "your hero Obama" cracks. They're annoying and patronizing. Obama is a private citizen now. Hillary too. All that really matters is what Trump does while he is in office. If you want a reasonable discussion, dish out some respect.


2 - I've made clear and will keep making clear that I see Trump and people who support him as distinct. It reminds me of how much I love the band Phish, a great rock band, but I know lots of people who confuse them with their fans. Like they're up on stage relaxing getting high instead of playing kick-ass rock music for 3 hours a show. I love these fans, some hate them, but they are not the band itself.


Likewise, you are not Trump. Trump is not you. When I come at him, and I will over and over, I am not coming at you. Keep that in mind. Respect is all we have, in the end, with people we don't sit in the same room with and can hug out a disagreement (or whatever your preference). Hope that comes across as reasonable and sensible. I would rather sit in a room with you than Trump any day of the week.


3 - We never were in the TPP, and it was progressives who fought it for years. Trump's politics tends to be very idiosyncratic. He thinks he can bring back American jobs. We'll see how the jobs report reflects this. But don't give him some kind of big win for that.


4 - One question for you: are you really comfortable with a so-called outsider putting forth Cabinet nominees from big business and oil? Or is this a rookie mistake on his part? I get the impression he may regret a lot of them, especially since they did not agree with many of his positions during their nomination hearings. He's been adding "shadow cabinet" people to their various departments, to keep a watch on if they are carrying out his will or their own. This seems like a sort of businessman-clever move. We'll see how it plays. But respond to my question.


5 - All that lying about the inauguration numbers and "alternative facts"--I've read this is the way that newbies are tested. How far will they go for you? Will they lie in public? George W had some people like that who would. So Trump is testing this out. Again, could backfire. It's also a test of the mainstream press. Do they have the balls to hit back on all that? So far they do.


6 - I'm interested in the actual facts of what he does. I have this feeling that his low poll numbers are going to sink even lower. How he responds to this will be interesting. Given his thin skin. I know a lot of what he does I won't agree with--like I didn't agree with Reagan, Bush, W Bush.


But I distinguish this from criminal activity. That may come. Time will tell.

Offline Stonehenge

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Re: 1/21/17
« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2017, 06:21:23 PM »



>And how about his crack about stealing the oil and invading Iraq again

What exactly did he say and do you have a link? If he threatened to invade iraq that is bad. But I want to see evidence.

>And what about betsy Devos? She has no qualifications other than being rich.

http://www.snopes.com/betsy-devos-education-secretary/

Quote
DeVos does have a degree, just not in education; she graduated from Calvin College in Grand Rapids, Michigan with a bachelor's degree in business administration and political science. She wouldn't be the first Secretary of Education to take office without a degree in the subject, however. Margaret Spellings, George W. Bush's education secretary from 2005 to 2009, had a degree in political science. Bill Clinton's education secretary, Richard W. Riley, had a law degree.

But its ok when clinton did it right? Or bush?

Quote
Donated $9.5 million to Trump's campaign?

False. Though DeVos and family are longtime contributors to the Republican Party, she did not support Donald Trump's candidacy in the 2016 election.

I have debunked your claim with facts, quotes and links.


>>Well I saw him signing the gag order, good enough?

As for your link to the gag order, I found this

" The USDA’s deputy administrator Michael Young clarified in a follow up memo that the gag order specifically applies to policy-related statements in press releases and interviews, which need to be vetted with the secretary of agriculture. He told the Washington Post that peer-reviewed research papers, many of which are inaccessible to the general public behind paywalls, are OK. Food safety announcements are as well."

Mr young was appointed by obama I believe

>I know you will not give me an honest answer to this one, but how do you think Trump will react to one tenth of the hatred that was  pointed at the Obamas??

I have done nothing but give honest answers, you could try to do the same. In fact trump has already recieved 10x the hate obama ever got. In case you didn't notice the media has trashed him from the go and idiot celebrities also. He has held up very well

>Trumps outl;andish claim of 3-5,000,000 fraudulent votes.

Probably more than that. We may never know but fraud has already been uncovered. Here is evidence http://www.breitbart.com/2016-presidential-race/2016/10/18/commit-voter-fraud-massive-scale-part-ii-project-veritas-investigation-clinton-network/

> i dont give a crap about Bush, Clinton or whoever

You turn a blind eye to their crimes but get excited over allegations against trump. Funny how that works

Do you think the $20T in debt means anything? I learned as a child if you spend more than comes in, sooner or later you are broke. We have been supporting the whole world for far too long. Trump is a breath of fresh air. Come back with some evidence to support your wild theories and we will talk.
Stoney

Offline Stonehenge

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Re: 1/21/17
« Reply #17 on: January 25, 2017, 06:54:18 PM »
>Quit the "your hero Obama" cracks

OK but both you and jrl as well as all liberals it seems care nothing about the bad deeds of obama, never really objected to anything just murmered a little. But your side hypes up unsubstantiated claims against trump. If you said anything about obama I must have missed it though you may have since you seem honest.

>We never were in the TPP, and it was progressives who fought it for years.

We weren't in because obama never submitted it to congress. He was a prime supporter of it and tried like hell to sell it to us. Obama was apparently waiting for his successor to push it through hopefully with a dem majority. I thought he was a "progressive"? Hillary too supported it until late in the election when she changed her mind. Temporarily no doubt. This is another example of turning a blind eye to what he and other dems have done.

> One question for you: are you really comfortable with a so-called outsider putting forth Cabinet nominees from big business and oil?

Would you prefer broke ass political hacks with no experience in those areas? Obama, your "not my hero" put in lots of stiffs. But thats different, right? If his people turn out to be crooked or incompetent I hope he sacks them.

>All that lying about the inauguration numbers and "alternative facts"--

Who was lying? There were experts making estimations. When a left wing rag like the wash post or cnn makes outlandish claims they cant back up, they simply put out a retraction and you are happy. But when someone on the trump team is wrong, then its a personal fault of trump and shows he is a "rookie" Do you see the double standard? Thats my question for you.

>It's also a test of the mainstream press. Do they have the balls to hit back on all that? So far they do.

The msm has been the peddler of lots of fake news. Speaking of numbers and estimates, they trumpeted the "fact" that all polls showed hillary was going to win a landslide, even on election eve. Trump is merely "hitting back" at the lies they spewed and the slanted biased coverage. CNN has lost tons of credibility and a lot of ratings. All the left wing msm is going down hill and instead of destroying trump they may destroy themselves.

I'm glad you are waiting to see what he actually does as opposed to what the media says he will do. If he fucks up I will be calling for his ouster too. I'm not a gop or dem, I think they are both crooked as hell. Trump is not a real gop either, he is a businessman and a pragmatist in gop clothing.

The system may break down from the 20t in debt, it will be in spite of his efforts, not because of them. But we both know the msm will blame him for everything. If anything goes right they will try to give credit to obomber, lol.


Trump reminds me of a corporate turnaround expert. Someone that failing corporations call in when the incompetent sons and grandsons of the founder screw everything up. They come in, cut the fat, get back to core business and make the company profitable again. Then they collect their paycheck and go on to the next one. The usa has been in technical bankruptcy for years and we need a turnaround. Feel free to give all the credit to obama, clinton or whoever. I just want to see things put right.
Stoney

Offline JRL

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Re: 1/21/17
« Reply #18 on: January 25, 2017, 08:23:53 PM »
Your little man has had a busy week. You cool with no more NEA?

 On January 19th, 2017, DT said that he would cut funding for the DOJ’s Violence Against Women programs.
 * On January 19th, 2017, DT said that he would cut funding for the National Endowment for the Arts.
 * On January 19th, 2017, DT said that he would cut funding for the National Endowment for the Humanities.
 * On January 19th, 2017, DT said that he would cut funding for the Corporation for Public Broadcasting.
 * On January 19th, 2017, DT said that he would cut funding for the Minority Business Development Agency.
 * On January 19th, 2017, DT said that he would cut funding for the Economic Development Administration.
 * On January 19th, 2017, DT said that he would cut funding for the International Trade Administration.
 * On January 19th, 2017, DT said that he would cut funding for the Manufacturing Extension Partnership.
 * On January 19th, 2017, DT said that he would cut funding for the Office of Community Oriented Policing Services.
 * On January 19th, 2017, DT said that he would cut funding for the Legal Services Corporation.
 * On January 19th, 2017, DT said that he would cut funding for the Civil Rights Division of the DOJ.
 * On January 19th, 2017, DT said that he would cut funding for the Environmental and Natural Resources Division of the DOJ.
 * On January 19th, 2017, DT said that he would cut funding for the Overseas Private Investment Corporation.
 * On January 19th, 2017, DT said that he would cut funding for the UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change.
 * On January 19th, 2017, DT said that he would cut funding for the Office of Electricity Deliverability and Energy Reliability.
 * On January 19th, 2017, DT said that he would cut funding for the Office of Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy.
 * On January 19th, 2017, DT said that he would cut funding for the Office of Fossil Energy.
 * On January 20th, 2017, DT ordered all regulatory powers of all federal agencies frozen.
 * On January 20th, 2017, DT ordered the National Parks Service to stop using social media after RTing factual, side by side photos of the crowds for the 2009 and 2017 inaugurations.
 * On January 20th, 2017, roughly 230 protestors were arrested in DC and face unprecedented felony riot charges. Among them were legal observers, journalists, and medics.
 * On January 20th, 2017, a member of the International Workers of the World was shot in the stomach at an anti-fascist protest in Seattle. He remains in critical condition.
 * On January 21st, 2017, DT brought a group of 40 cheerleaders to clap and cheer his every word on, to a meeting with the CIA to cheer for him during a speech that consisted almost entirely of framing himself as the victim of dishonest press, to argue about numbers at his inauguration, and to brag about the number of times he's been on the cover of Time Magazine. This narcissistic grandstanding was done in the equivalent of the CIA's Arlington Memorial. It is a place where they go to mourn and honor the heroes who died defending our country. George Bush spoke there and did it respectfully. Obama spoke there and it was respectful. This, is appalling.
 * On January 21st, 2017, White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer held a press conference largely to attack the press for accurately reporting the size of attendance at the inaugural festivities, saying that the inauguration had the largest audience of any in history, “period," despite this being easily proven to be untrue.
 * On January 22nd, 2017, White House advisor Kellyann Conway defended Spicer’s lies as “alternative facts” on national television news.
 * On January 22nd, 2017, DT appeared to blow a kiss to director James Comey during a meeting with the FBI, and then opened his arms in a gesture of strange, paternal affection, before hugging him with a pat on the back. Today, it is announced Comey will be one of the few under old administration who will be keeping his job.
 * On January 23rd, 2017, DT reinstated the global gag order, which defunds international organizations that even mention abortion as a medical option.
 * On January 23rd, 2017, Spicer said that the US will not tolerate China’s expansion onto islands in the South China Sea, essentially threatening war with China.
 * On January 23rd, 2017, DT repeated the lie that 3-5 million people voted “illegally” thus costing him the popular vote.
 * On January 23rd, 2017, it was announced that the man who shot the anti-fascist protester in Seattle was released without charges, despite turning himself in.
 * On January 24th, 2017, Spicer reiterated the lie that 3-5 million people voted “illegally” thus costing DT the popular vote. This is indefensible. DT can't stand the thought that he didn't win Bigly.
 * On January 24th, 2017, DT tweeted a picture from his personal Twitter account of a photo he says depicts the crowd at his inauguration and will hang in the White House press room. The photo is curiously dated January 21st, 2017, the day AFTER the inauguration and the day of the Women’s March, the largest inauguration related protest in history.
 * On January 24th, 2017, the EPA was ordered to stop communicating with the public through social media or the press and to freeze all grants and contracts.
 * On January 24th, 2017, the USDA was ordered to stop communicating with the public through social media or the press and to stop publishing any papers or research. All communication with the press would also have to be authorized and vetted by the White House.
 * On January 24th, 2017, HR7, a bill that would prohibit federal funding not only to abortion service providers, but to any insurance coverage, including Medicaid, that provides abortion coverage, went to the floor of the House for a vote.
 * On January 24th, 2017, Director of the Department of Health and Human Service nominee Tom Price characterized federal guidelines on transgender equality as “absurd.”
 * On January 24th, 2017, DT ordered the resumption of construction on the Dakota Access Pipeline, while the North Dakota state congress considers a bill that would legalize hitting and killing protestors with cars if they are on roadways.
 * On January 24th, 2017, it was discovered that police officers had used confiscated cell phones to search the emails and messages of the 230 demonstrators now facing felony riot charges for protesting on January 20th, including lawyers and journalists whose email accounts contain privileged information of clients and sources.
 ******And today: the wall and a Muslim ban.LikeCommentShare1 1CommentsJoe LevJoe Lev Little man you've had a busy day.Like · Reply · 4 mi
a group of us, on peyote, had little to share with a group on marijuana

the marijuana smokers were discussing questions of the utmost profundity and we were sticking our fingers in our navels & giggling
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Offline JRL

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Re: 1/21/17
« Reply #19 on: January 25, 2017, 08:25:33 PM »
As far as "take the oil" goes its a direct quote. Watch the CIA speech, thats were he said it. He didnt say "invade Iraq" he "we may get another chance" refering to taking the oil
a group of us, on peyote, had little to share with a group on marijuana

the marijuana smokers were discussing questions of the utmost profundity and we were sticking our fingers in our navels & giggling
                  Jack Green

Offline Stonehenge

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Re: 1/21/17
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2017, 09:38:15 PM »
Well joe, many of those agencies being cut were bloated and wasteful. Notice he did not eliminate any of them. Probably his people figure they can cut the fat and do the same job on less money. That is the kind of thing I like to see.

> On January 20th, 2017, DT ordered all regulatory powers of all federal agencies frozen.

This is a good thing, excessive regulation has been the bane of business as well as private individuals. They tell you what you can and can't do with your property using no logic at all sometimes. 

> On January 20th, 2017, roughly 230 protestors were arrested in DC and face unprecedented felony riot charges. Among them were legal observers, journalists, and medics.

I saw videos of "protesters" smashing windows of businesses and cars. A stretch limo was on fire. An anti trump person set the hair on fire of a lady attending the event. There was a lot of violence. Let the legal system take care of it. If a so called journalist committed a crime, he should pay. He/she will have their day in court

>On January 20th, 2017, a member of the International Workers of the World was shot in the stomach at an anti-fascist protest in Seattle. He remains in critical condition.

Did trump do it? You are grasping at straws

> On January 24th, 2017, it was discovered that police officers had used confiscated cell phones to search the emails and messages of the 230 demonstrators now facing felony riot charges for protesting on January 20th, including lawyers and journalists whose email accounts contain privileged information of clients and sources.

Did you know this is a common tactic used by police and used a lot under obama? Funny how I don't recall any protests out of you when it was your man doing it. Trump was barely in office and had no time to change any policies like that. When your guy does it its fine, when trump can be blamed somehow, its terrible

> On January 24th, 2017, Director of the Department of Health and Human Service nominee Tom Price characterized federal guidelines on transgender equality as “absurd.”

So he is not allowed to have an opinion? You will scrap the first amendment if its a conservative talking? A lot of people have a problem with men in skirts going into the ladies room when someone's young daughter is in there.

The rest is you or some other extreme leftist putting your opinion in like "true" when it goes against trump, false when it was said by his team, etc etc etc with no evidence of truth or falsehood.

You have not answered any of the questions put to you guys, not a one of them. I'm supposed to search for a video of his speech to the cia but all we have is your say so. I gave a link to my quote.

Joe, we are not getting anywhere here, you obviously are not going to change your views no matter what happens or doesn't happen. You will try to twist it to fit your narrative, the same one the msm has been teaching you.

I on the other hand, am waiting to see what actually happens. If its bad its bad but so far it sounds good or we need to see the details. Cenacle too has said more or less the same thing, he is ideologically opposed to conservative policies but is open to the idea it may work out. Sorry if I mischaracterised your position, cenacle, but that is how it sounded.

Joe, lets not turn this into a personal argument. I have no problem with you believing what you do, but I will refute what I see as false statements with no evidence to back them up. I will give links and quotes. We are discussing ideas, not each other as cenacle pointed out. You are not hillary or obama, neither am I trump. If he fucks up bad I want him out even if it means I have to pay off the bet.
Stoney

Offline JRL

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Re: 1/21/17
« Reply #21 on: January 26, 2017, 02:44:09 PM »
It is actually happening. Now. The world is turning on us. I saw the british ambassador saying that Trump has put his servicemen in jeopardy along with ours. Why does anyone think that Mexxico os goin to pay for the wall the wont get built and wouldnt work if it does. Mexico has nothing to gain by payin for it and we dont either. If you dont see Trump as delusional and also a liar.

He is Nixon 2.0 only worse.
a group of us, on peyote, had little to share with a group on marijuana

the marijuana smokers were discussing questions of the utmost profundity and we were sticking our fingers in our navels & giggling
                  Jack Green

Offline JRL

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Re: 1/21/17
« Reply #22 on: January 26, 2017, 03:17:06 PM »
I did post a link to the report about the EPA gag order. He also gave one to the USDA. These are facts. Im not sure how an ethnobotanist could be punching an antiscientist's ticket.

I refuse to normalize Trump. To my eyes and millions more he appears to be a derange lunatic without the character to be president.

The fate of the world is in the balance in my opinion. I will not go quietly, I will not shut the fuck up. I wont pretend that its ok, its gonna be ok or Im ok. I will not get over it. You ever notice how the people to tell me to get over it will bring up Hillary, Bill and President Obama in the next sentence?

"President" Trump is one scary motherfucker. Did you see how all the senior state department managers resigned?
a group of us, on peyote, had little to share with a group on marijuana

the marijuana smokers were discussing questions of the utmost profundity and we were sticking our fingers in our navels & giggling
                  Jack Green

Offline Stonehenge

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Re: 1/21/17
« Reply #23 on: January 26, 2017, 06:10:51 PM »
>It is actually happening. Now. The world is turning on us.

Lol, time to take a deep breath. The beneficiaries of bad trade trade agreements with us are dissapointed but they will get over it. When a rich drunk is handing out goodies, he has lots of friends. When he sobers up and stops it, some turn on him like the ingrates they are.

>I did post a link to the report about the EPA gag order. He also gave one to the USDA. These are facts.

Did you read the links and quotes I gave debunking that?

>Im not sure how an ethnobotanist could be punching an antiscientist's ticket.

I like what I see so far. How can an environmentalist support trucking oil by rail instead of pipeline?

> I will not go quietly, I will not shut the fuck up. I wont pretend that its ok, its gonna be ok or Im ok. I will not get over it

I doubt you will get over it but looking at actual facts instead of the gop label, shows he is doing great so far. People who never change their beliefs or opinions no matter what the facts are, are kind of sad.

He is building the wall to keep criminals and drug mules out. Real immigrants can apply for a visa or asylum instead of just walking over. He is also doing away with catch and release. Idiot obama had them let go the ones they caught if they promised to show up in court. How is that working out? Not so well

He is cutting the fat out of bloated federal beaurocracy, stopped the unvetted admission of those from states known to harbor terrorists. What is not to like?

>Did you see how all the senior state department managers resigned?

Yes, that is good too. The self selected incompetent ideologues quit so that trump doesn't have to fire them, he can simply put his own people in place. If he had fired them, you and the media would be screaming how mean he is.

He is considering doing one thing I don't like at all, moving the embassy to jerusalem which would inflame tensions a lot and earn condemnation from the world. You are worried about how the world sees us aren't you? But he is reconsidering and may not do it.

Tell us again how the pipeline is bad for the environment and rail is good? Shall I post links to the horrible record of spills, derailments, and loss of life from train accidents involving crude?
Stoney

Offline Stonehenge

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Re: 1/21/17
« Reply #24 on: January 27, 2017, 03:54:33 PM »
Here is some info on the safety of rail vs pipe for transporting oil. We have to have the oil its just a matter of how to move it. Piplines have been used for this purpose for a long time so we have lots of data to examine. The record shows clearly that pipelines not only save money but also are much safer.

https://www.manhattan-institute.org/pdf/ib_23.pdf

in addition to enjoying a substantial cost advantage,
pipelines result in fewer spillage incidents and
personal injuries than road and rail. Americans are
more likely to get struck by lightning than to be
killed in a pipeline accident.1
Stoney

Offline Stonehenge

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Re: 1/21/17
« Reply #25 on: January 28, 2017, 05:23:14 PM »
It seems trump was right again, as most of us knew already.

***********
A study revealing that over 800,000 non-citizens voted for Hillary Clinton doesn’t account for dead and fraudulent voters, which accounted for over 25 million “registered voters” during the 2012 presidential election – and little has changed since then.

Illegal alien voters combined with dead and “multiple state” voters could easily explain Clinton’s “popular vote” margin over Donald Trump in the 2016 presidential election, especially considering that her “victory” came from Democratic-controlled counties known for illegal immigration and loose voter ID laws such as in New York and California.

“A report by the Pew Center on the States finds that more than 1.8 million dead people are currently registered to vote, and 24 million registrations are either invalid or inaccurate,” NPR reported in 2012, which is ironic given how NPR is heavily controlled by Democrats.

And many of the dead, registered voters somehow keep voting Democrat from beyond the grave, most recently in Philadelphia, Penn. and Colorado.
It’s also worth noting that the U.S. population has increased since 2012, meaning that there’s likely more dead and invalid voters than before.

“…The Pew study found that almost 3 million people are registered to vote in more than one state,” NPR added.
That’s because when a new resident registers to vote in a state, officials usually never bother to tell his former state about the change in voter residency.

Under the “catch and release” immigration program by the Obama administration, illegal aliens were routinely given bus tickets to travel to other states by immigration officials, so it was theoretically possible for non-citizens to register to vote in a border country illegally, then register to vote in another state after their taxpayer-funded bus dropped them off.

Clinton won most of the 163 most populous counties in the US that account for half of the total votes in the election, including dense urban areas in New York and California, yet she only won the popular vote by 2.8 million votes, which reveals the lack of enthusiasm voters had for her in comparison to Trump – and that Democrats would have depended more on illegal votes.

A portion of the 24 million invalid voter registrations combined with a portion of the 1.8 million dead voters and the over 800,000 known illegal voters could explain the difference of 2.8 million votes, and it’s worth noting that the 800,000 figure could be a low, conservative estimate.

http://www.infowars.com/bombshell-at-least-25-million-dead-and-fraudulent-registered-voters-in-2016/
Stoney

Offline Stonehenge

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Re: 1/21/17
« Reply #26 on: January 28, 2017, 07:25:52 PM »
Here is something interesting. It seems trump is keeping his pledge to drain the swamp and clean up the dirty mess that is washington. Think hillary would ever have done this? lol. Notice I dont just give an opinion or repeat some rumor, I give quotes and links

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/trump-sets-year-lifetime-lobbying-ban-officials-45115600

President Donald Trump acted Saturday to fulfill a key portion of his pledge to "drain the swamp" in Washington, banning administration officials from ever lobbying the U.S. on behalf of a foreign government and imposing a separate five-year ban on other lobbying.
Stoney